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	<title>Comments on: Hacking Does Pay! US Law Let&#8217;s Hacker Keep Fraudulent Earnings</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/</link>
	<description>Ethical Hacking, Penetration Testing &#38; Computer Security</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:04:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: grav</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-123873</link>
		<dc:creator>grav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-123873</guid>
		<description>Good for him : )

Really though, there is not much they can do.
I bet even he knew that he committed fraud.
Does he care...
probably not</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good for him : )</p>
<p>Really though, there is not much they can do.<br />
I bet even he knew that he committed fraud.<br />
Does he care&#8230;<br />
probably not</p>
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		<title>By: zupakomputer</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117161</link>
		<dc:creator>zupakomputer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117161</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s with the Hitler Youth positions when it comes to &#039;working for The Man&#039; here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s with the Hitler Youth positions when it comes to &#8216;working for The Man&#8217; here?</p>
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		<title>By: Pantagruel</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117126</link>
		<dc:creator>Pantagruel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117126</guid>
		<description>@ J.Lion

True, they will have to close this loophole, for the time being it&#039;s indeed wrong but not punishable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ J.Lion</p>
<p>True, they will have to close this loophole, for the time being it&#8217;s indeed wrong but not punishable</p>
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		<title>By: sir jorge</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117021</link>
		<dc:creator>sir jorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-117021</guid>
		<description>oh! it&#039;s on now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh! it&#8217;s on now!</p>
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		<title>By: J. Lion</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116714</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Lion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116714</guid>
		<description>Then again incidents such as this force higher ups to creates laws to forbid these activities.

With that being said - if there are no laws violated then it is not illegal, but does not mean it&#039;s not wrong. A man can do many wrongs but still be legal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then again incidents such as this force higher ups to creates laws to forbid these activities.</p>
<p>With that being said &#8211; if there are no laws violated then it is not illegal, but does not mean it&#8217;s not wrong. A man can do many wrongs but still be legal.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Lion</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116711</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Lion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116711</guid>
		<description>This article definitely shows that laws surrounding Information Technology need to mature some more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article definitely shows that laws surrounding Information Technology need to mature some more.</p>
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		<title>By: zupakomputer</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116289</link>
		<dc:creator>zupakomputer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116289</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d meant the regimes that do prevent (or in most cases today, used to prevent) individuals owning goods and businesses; I wasn&#039;t meaning the man here that the article is about nor any of his or his countrys political state of affairs (which I&#039;m unsure of anyway, who is in power in the Ukraine right now).

It was more a comment about not being able to use insider info, that it sounded like it&#039;s from the same kind of laws that led to people queing to buy bread, and being thrown off their farms cause they weren&#039;t allowed to own them - cause the land was all state-owned.
That&#039;s actually still happening in China, to make way for &quot;development&quot;.

The jobs thing, I just don&#039;t know. It&#039;s looking like the only way to get ahead would be to: set-up your own business....! Contact key people and get clients. Let them know just how lameo and unsafe it is if they leave their companys hands in specific vendors care only, and their service packs and standardised-package IDSs etc.....

There was a time when there were a lot of hardware factories and the like here, but they all upped and left - now they run sweatshops in countries where they pay people even less than we got, to do the same jobs - and boy did we get shit wages. I used to work in a few of them.
To be honest, given the way most of the production was run I&#039;m not surprised they located elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d meant the regimes that do prevent (or in most cases today, used to prevent) individuals owning goods and businesses; I wasn&#8217;t meaning the man here that the article is about nor any of his or his countrys political state of affairs (which I&#8217;m unsure of anyway, who is in power in the Ukraine right now).</p>
<p>It was more a comment about not being able to use insider info, that it sounded like it&#8217;s from the same kind of laws that led to people queing to buy bread, and being thrown off their farms cause they weren&#8217;t allowed to own them &#8211; cause the land was all state-owned.<br />
That&#8217;s actually still happening in China, to make way for &#8220;development&#8221;.</p>
<p>The jobs thing, I just don&#8217;t know. It&#8217;s looking like the only way to get ahead would be to: set-up your own business&#8230;.! Contact key people and get clients. Let them know just how lameo and unsafe it is if they leave their companys hands in specific vendors care only, and their service packs and standardised-package IDSs etc&#8230;..</p>
<p>There was a time when there were a lot of hardware factories and the like here, but they all upped and left &#8211; now they run sweatshops in countries where they pay people even less than we got, to do the same jobs &#8211; and boy did we get shit wages. I used to work in a few of them.<br />
To be honest, given the way most of the production was run I&#8217;m not surprised they located elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Pantagruel</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116170</link>
		<dc:creator>Pantagruel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116170</guid>
		<description>@zupakompter

Individual ownership of goods and such is in no way prevented, nor are they preventing you from running your own business to your hearts content. The tax office will not mind you going bankrupt because of bad deals/judgments, but they will investigate if you&#039;ve been trying to evade taxes.
If the guy in question would have been a straight up citizin he would not have gotten his hands on the intel or atleast exploited it to this extend.

webster.com states:

ex·ploit 

Pronunciation:  \ik-?splo?it, ?ek-?\ 
Function:
    transitive verb 
Date:
    1838 

  1  : to make productive use of : utilize     
2  : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one&#039;s own advantage   

He quite literaly made very productive use of his unfair gained knowledge.

Sorry about your bad experience with the jobmarket. 
It&#039;s true they tend to want the cheapest mule who seems capable of doing the job. Sure they do appreciate your knowledge gathered over the years, but they seem reluctant to shell out (paycheck) for it. Hell during my last assesment I was found to be &#039;rather expensive&#039; because I expect to be paid more for my 10 years of experience instead of accepting starters wages. The best thing to do is scour about for a new job which does reward your skills/experience and simply let them now that they are the ones that could be made redundant, not you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zupakompter</p>
<p>Individual ownership of goods and such is in no way prevented, nor are they preventing you from running your own business to your hearts content. The tax office will not mind you going bankrupt because of bad deals/judgments, but they will investigate if you&#8217;ve been trying to evade taxes.<br />
If the guy in question would have been a straight up citizin he would not have gotten his hands on the intel or atleast exploited it to this extend.</p>
<p>webster.com states:</p>
<p>ex·ploit </p>
<p>Pronunciation:  \ik-?splo?it, ?ek-?\<br />
Function:<br />
    transitive verb<br />
Date:<br />
    1838 </p>
<p>  1  : to make productive use of : utilize<br />
2  : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one&#8217;s own advantage   </p>
<p>He quite literaly made very productive use of his unfair gained knowledge.</p>
<p>Sorry about your bad experience with the jobmarket.<br />
It&#8217;s true they tend to want the cheapest mule who seems capable of doing the job. Sure they do appreciate your knowledge gathered over the years, but they seem reluctant to shell out (paycheck) for it. Hell during my last assesment I was found to be &#8216;rather expensive&#8217; because I expect to be paid more for my 10 years of experience instead of accepting starters wages. The best thing to do is scour about for a new job which does reward your skills/experience and simply let them now that they are the ones that could be made redundant, not you.</p>
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		<title>By: zupakomputer</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116149</link>
		<dc:creator>zupakomputer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-116149</guid>
		<description>By &#039;worst type of communism&#039; I was meaning the form of it that prevents individual ownership of goods, and doesn&#039;t let people run their own businesses.

I still think he didn&#039;t get the money unfairly. All the moreso I feel that way now, after having just been reminded in my own life of how unfair the job market is anyway - it&#039;s completely slanted in favor of idiot minion types who are work-slaves with no creativity and not a braincell between them.
The job market doesn&#039;t reward skills and talent; if it did there&#039;d be no crime...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8216;worst type of communism&#8217; I was meaning the form of it that prevents individual ownership of goods, and doesn&#8217;t let people run their own businesses.</p>
<p>I still think he didn&#8217;t get the money unfairly. All the moreso I feel that way now, after having just been reminded in my own life of how unfair the job market is anyway &#8211; it&#8217;s completely slanted in favor of idiot minion types who are work-slaves with no creativity and not a braincell between them.<br />
The job market doesn&#8217;t reward skills and talent; if it did there&#8217;d be no crime&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pantagruel</title>
		<link>http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-115842</link>
		<dc:creator>Pantagruel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darknet.org.uk/2008/02/hacking-does-pay-us-law-lets-hacker-keep-fraudulent-earnings/#comment-115842</guid>
		<description>@zupakomputer

I fail to see the &#039;communism&#039; link, but that might just be me ;)

It would be very nice if all business models would be based upon the sustainable philosophy, sadly only a fraction is. 
The models that make the largest profits are exploitation based (oil [other natural resource deemed valuable, gold/silver/etc], drugs, weapons, slavery.
The problem is not in the manipulation of your own business but using the yet to be released knowledge to further your own bank account (unfair advantage). The fact remains that it&#039;s quite stunning that real world companies have a higher virtual value (for me there is no real value in stock option of any company, it is purely based upon some crazy idea that a company is worth X because they have a turn over of Y and a resulting profit of Z. Because annalists expect the company to enlarge their next years profit, the stock option will be likely valued at Z+q in the future). The problem is that the company is not worth more than all the property it possesses and the liquid funds is has.

So in the end he was exploiting those people who had their hopes set on a rising stock option value. Ofcourse those people would end up empty any how, but since he knew about the demise of the company he was able to profit.

It about ethics and fairness. Ethics make sure we stay within the bound of our self imposed limits. Fairness dictates we all try to win under the same circumstances. A bit like in sports, we all want to win, expect people to obey the rules of the game and expect them in all fairness to refrain from using enhancing potions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zupakomputer</p>
<p>I fail to see the &#8216;communism&#8217; link, but that might just be me <img src='http://www.darknet.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It would be very nice if all business models would be based upon the sustainable philosophy, sadly only a fraction is.<br />
The models that make the largest profits are exploitation based (oil [other natural resource deemed valuable, gold/silver/etc], drugs, weapons, slavery.<br />
The problem is not in the manipulation of your own business but using the yet to be released knowledge to further your own bank account (unfair advantage). The fact remains that it&#8217;s quite stunning that real world companies have a higher virtual value (for me there is no real value in stock option of any company, it is purely based upon some crazy idea that a company is worth X because they have a turn over of Y and a resulting profit of Z. Because annalists expect the company to enlarge their next years profit, the stock option will be likely valued at Z+q in the future). The problem is that the company is not worth more than all the property it possesses and the liquid funds is has.</p>
<p>So in the end he was exploiting those people who had their hopes set on a rising stock option value. Ofcourse those people would end up empty any how, but since he knew about the demise of the company he was able to profit.</p>
<p>It about ethics and fairness. Ethics make sure we stay within the bound of our self imposed limits. Fairness dictates we all try to win under the same circumstances. A bit like in sports, we all want to win, expect people to obey the rules of the game and expect them in all fairness to refrain from using enhancing potions.</p>
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